Sunday, July 30, 2006

Some Questions

I have a couple of questions that are kinda bothering me.

#1 How can you tell who are civilians and who are the terrorists or whatever they call themselves??? I mean, do they have a uniformed army that you can distinguish them from the civilian population?

#2 I know this is going to sound awful but feel free to correct me. Isn't suicide for "the cause" considered a BIG deal for those people? I mean I am coming from strictly a lay person who watches the news closely so I could be speaking out of turn, BUT is it such a far stretch to think the death of those families may have been hoped for and even planned on their part? Would these people go to that extreme??? Would they allow themselves (whole families) to be sacrificed for the cause knowing the death of women, children and elderly is something the "free" world can not tolerate and how badly it would make Israel to appear. They know us ALL TOO WELL and they KNOW what will get to us. I mean am I not right that their beliefs are that those persons that were killed are now GREAT and will be rewarded?

#3 At first, I was just SICK about the children who had to die. Then it was like, gosh, children on both sides are dying so do you sacrifice your own for the sake of NOT killing the enemy's children???? If we as Americans have to make that choice, will we be willing to sacrifice our children or will we do whatever it takes to protect our children??

#4 As the day goes by and I listen more and more, and watch the protests which are not holding up pictures of these poor innocent children but pictures of the evil men who hid behind them, then I wonder, would these people go to that extreme??? I don't understand why those "innocent" people stayed. I don't understand why Israel warns them ahead of time, tells them where they are going to bomb or whatever and gives them time to leave the area and they STAY. Especially those with children. Did those people not know the "bad guys" were using them as a shield???? Or is that it, they saw it as an honor to protect their "good guys"? After all, there was no loosing on thier part in that situation. Either the Israelites would never dare to harm the innocent or they would and the world would hate them for it. Is that not the way these people have shown to be the way they think and see things?

Nevertheless, the children truly were innocent and my heart goes out for them and all children, who have no control over what happens in their lives. There is no such thing as an child enemy.....there just isn't. All they want is to be fed, clothed, loved and protected.....in all places of this world, it is the same. They must be taught how to hate.

It is not Israel that should be hanging their heads in shame over this incident. They are trying to protect their children.....it is the evil, evil persons who hide behind thier own children to protect themselves and have no shame over it. NOT once have we heard one word of regret on their part. At least Israel can mourn for the children........I hear no celebration from their part about it.

#5 One last question to ask, I wonder what the results of the following scenerios would be.
(A) An Israelite child or an American child, caught alone in the middle of a battle. The Islam enemy finds the child........would he kill the child or try to save it?
(B) An Islam child caught alone in the middle of a battle. An Israelite soldier or an American soldier finds the child......would he kill the child or try to save it?

(I know I don't use all the proper names for all the Mid East countries and people, forgive me. So as to not misspell or use the wrong names, I chose not to try.)

29 Comments:

Blogger HotRodHanna said...

I will be the first to admit ignorance on the political and religious aspects of the middle east conflicts. It's a conflict that has been ongoing since biblical times and won't be resolved til after we've been taken home.

Re #2 Giving your life for something you believe in is traditionally a big deal, but it seems like the reasoning behind their 'suicides' is killing as many people as they can at the same time. There is nothing noble about that and its an insult to those who have lost their lives for living what they believed, ie christian martyrs, holocost victims etc.

I think that extremists will sacrifice everything for their 'cause', but it is not an attitude that applies to all Muslims. Actually, there are strict 'rules' for jihad or 'holy war'. To the best of my recollection, it only applies to men, and only if you are attacked. The aggression is then only directed at those who attacked you, and is not to involve women and children. So those slaughering innocents do not understand the very religion they say they are fighting for. Bottom line, God has allowed those countries to be in turmoil, it's all part of the plan. But my heart goes out to the children. They didn't ask to be born into a world of violence, and they have no means of escape.

(From a jaded dispatcher point of view, what good are you to the 'cause' if your dead? Seems like a stupid thing to do.)

11:50 PM  
Blogger mistyforeverlost said...

I can explain number 4.

Hezbollah kidnapped the Israel Troops on the 12th of July (and bombed a small town which resulted in casualties, but I don't think death-could be wrong) in hopes of doing an exchange for troops that Israel kidnapped prior. So, Israel issued "fair warning" and proceeded to bomb Lebonese airports and roadways early morning on the 13th of July. Less then 24 hour notice.

Many did leave, those who could anyway. But your also talking about civilians who are not rich, do not have the ability to leave and some (like farmers) cannot leave because then thier crops will die and they will literally be left with nothing to support themselves. They has choices to make...take a chance and if they survive, not die of starvation or further poverty or leave and know they will have nothing to return to (farmers). Others simply did not have the money to move their entire family out of the area.

It's not as easy as saying "they had warning" Look at Katrina. They had warning and yet...the poor ended up left behind.

Yes Hezbollah hides behind civilians. Yes, it's sad whenever the death toll includes children.

Lebanese death toll with less then half being Hezbolla--over 500.

Israel death toll with over half being soldiers--less then 75.

5:35 AM  
Blogger one more patriot said...

misty

in your opinion, what should Isreal do when their soilders are kidnapped and their cities are bombed?

11:08 AM  
Blogger mistyforeverlost said...

Not bomb the civilians, give them more then "less then" 24 hours to evacuate and keep the roads, airports and other means of transportation open so they CAN evacuate.

IMO, it's really easy to say "get out" but if you look at the logistics of the bombings and the time line...it wasn't so easy. There will always be people who stay due to many reasons (lack of funding to leave, scared their livelyhood will be destroyed and just plain ol' ain't gonna happen to me syndrome).

Don't get me wrong, as far as I am concerned, neither are right. Hezbollah for hiding out in civilian terrority or doing a "return favor" kidnapping in hopes of a trade. But Israel (imo) is doing the far greater disservice by bombing known civilians and stating "it's because Hezbollah's there hiding." If that were the case, we would see much more Hezbollah deaths.

Israel won. Hezbollah has minimal firepower at this point, Lebanon is basically in ruins and too many civilians have died at the hands of Israel.

11:39 AM  
Blogger Auntie D said...

Let me make this point VERY clear, if I was told someone was going to be bombing, even close to my home, if you don't think I would not have my grandson out of here so quick........honey, if it meant running barefoot carrying him all the way.......in less than 24 hours I could get enough distance between us and that area, that I KNOW. There is no way ANYTHING on this earth is more important than my children and there is NOTHING I would put them in danger over. Sorry, you loose me completely on that one misty. And there is no way you are going to convince me you wouldn't do the same with your children. Sorry, it just don't wash.

And then today, I'm listening again and what do I hear? The same questions that plaqued me seem to be plaquing others too. Like, how come there was nothing but women and children there???? Where were all the men????

If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it's pretty sure thing it's a duck.

And now I believe those people are more evil than I can ever, ever imagine.

You point your finger accusing Israel all you want misty but I can promise you, if it ever came down to it, who would you want protecting your children???? Those statistics you quoted, all it shows me is that Israel is doing a good job protecting their own.

After hearing what I have heard today, I am convinced the whole thing was a set up. And it makes me sick.....SICK!!!

I'm sorry but that is one area I have never, ever pulled my punches. The mistreatment or harming of children is unforgivable to me. To set those children up like that.....it's just so unreal. Israel had no way of knowing those children were in that building. They gave warning. Any normal person would assume they would have gotten women and children out, one way or the other. And MOST would have. Don't even try to tell me Israel deliberately killed children. Nope, won't wash.

Sorry, been a hectic day and my patience has run thin and like I said, the harming of innocent children who want only to be fed, clothed, loved and protected...just BURNS ME UP!

3:12 PM  
Blogger mistyforeverlost said...

I was going to post here, but if you look at the learning curve, I'll put up an article of WHY people didn't.

And again, Auntie...I never "sided" with Israel. I simply stated that they were wrong for bombing so many civilian areas..cutting of the roads and removing the capability for safe evacuations.

4:46 AM  
Blogger Auntie D said...

Misty, I think you did one of my typos...you meant sided "against" I think because I don't believe I'm the only one thinking you sounded very much against Israel. I thank you very much for the invitation to your other site (which I will say for a while I was enjoying VERY much) but I'm afraid it would just get my B/P up and I've had such a lovely day today. I can not imagine that there is anything you could tell me that I haven't heard and sorry hon, you are NOT going to tell me YOU would not have gotten your children out of there no matter what it took. And trying not to get upset, but please, PLEASE don't start in telling me how I don't understand the poor or underprivileged or whatever you wish to call those in circumstances below the average American because hon, I work in one of the poorest counties there is and I'm telling you that what I see.....yes, there are those who are "poor" because they want to be; there are those who are poor because they have no means to change that but given the means to do so, they flourish; and then you have the countries where poverty is the way of life. None of that makes any of them stupid. For people to feel like they need to make excuses for any of their behavior really, really bugs me because I am with people like those I have described every day and I just haven't found a stupid one in the bunch nor have I found one that NEEDS anyone's excuses. For you to make excuses for the reasons "why they did not get those children to safety" only says to me that you believe they do not care as much for their children as we do. Now you think about that statement, it's rather deep but I think if you or anyone else ponders a bit, you will catch the meaning of it. I don't care WHAT culture it is....hear me well on this....I do NOT care what culture it is.....ANY culture where children are not loved, protected, cared for to the best of the parents or family's ability is an EVIL, EVIL culture. ANY culture that would allow children to be human shields, is an EVIL, EVIL culture. I'm sorry, I told you, children is one area I do NOT pull punches. Nope, not in my lifetime. There is not one word you can say to me, you or anyone else, that will convince me that it was evil.......EVIL. And there is NO, NONE, NIL excuses. So yes, here is one area you can say with total truth, I am close minded.

2:34 PM  
Blogger Auntie D said...

Seeeeeeee I typoed too.....should have been convince me it was not evil....LOL.....I just did that to make you feel better...hehehe (and I have some land to sale too)

2:38 PM  
Blogger mistyforeverlost said...

AuntieD, you can think what you want...I don't side with EITHER. I simply think that Israel is wrong to do mass bombings on civilian territory. Go in with troops and take out Hezbollah door to door. It's doable and can be done without harming the children.

Apparently, you feel that less then 24 hours is plenty of notice to evacuate all the people, even those who could not make it out on their own. Like the one who had diabeties and an amputated leg. Or the 70 year olds or the 8 month pregnant mothers. Yeah..they could walk 5 miles to the next town and many did and those towns were bombed as well. Many went to Qara thinking they were going to be safe as it holds a UN barracks that is NOT supposed to be bombed at all.

Uh-huh..apparently it isn't ME who doesn't want to hear the truth this time. It's all out there for you to read if you googled a bit.

No, I don't side with Hezbollah OR Israel. I side with civilians who did NOT have ample time to get out and many who COULD NOT get out because the bombing had already started. How the heck did you expect them to waltz down to the next neighborhood or town when the roads were DESTROYED? When bombs were going off constantly? Ever hear of picking what you hoped would be the best of two bad situations? Stay or go. Stay and have a chance of getting bombed. Go and have a chance of getting bombed.

Sure, they dropped leaflets. That's great. Hoorah for them. Better then nothing but there is not a thing your going to tell me that will convince me that LESS THEN 24 HOURS BEFORE BOMBING HIT was plenty of time to move every single Lebanonese civilian out of the hostile region. WE, American's couldn't even do that with Katrina..but apparently you expect way more out of other nations.

How many Israel civilians have died Auntie compared to Lebanonese civilians? Lebanonese is at a definite count of over 500 with a possible 750. Israel is at a tad over 50.

5:12 PM  
Blogger Auntie D said...

Sure funny how the menfolk managed to get out!

5:33 PM  
Blogger Auntie D said...

No answer? Okay, misty, you are correct hon, I don't have time to "google" all day long, so that makes me uninformed. Okay. I just have xm radio that I keep on all day long, but you are right I should definitely trust what is on the computer more. Shoot, if it's good enough for the likes of Bin Laden and his group IT HAS TO BE RELIABLE!!! We are just looking at the same picture and upset about what we see but front different directions. You look at that stats and see how BAD Israel is.....I look at the stats and say WOW they are doing a GREAT job protecting thier own. Perhaps the fact that I had a husband and too many friends serve in Viet Nam and I heard way too many horror stories of how the enemy would use children to kill us. How it was so very, very hard to tell the enemy from the civilians. Go door to door? Hon, and exactly how would they know which set of faces they saw were "the enemy"???? Oh yeah, the ones hiding behind the children and shooting around them. If you honestly believe Israel could just go in there now and go door to door and no "civilains" would not be hurt, then sorry, it is my opinion you are living in a dream world. Why you want more Israel civilians killed I do not know. You keep repeating those stats and I do not know what your point is other than to think you want MORE Israel citizens killed so it's more fair???????? Honestly hon, how can you not see that it's just that Israel is doing a good job because I'm telling you, turn on the tv and you can watch how hard they are trying to kill Israel civilians. PLEASE don't tell me you think they are not more successful on purpose. Oh myyyyyy goshhhhhhhh............okay, I can't, I can not even allow myself to think you could be that......I have to go to work. Could someone else please help me out here. Because one of us, misty or I are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy off base. Where is wadical, dawg, bean and the rest of you....hotrodhanna.....patriot

3:51 AM  
Blogger mistyforeverlost said...

They did just go "door to door" with ground troops and only 19 lebanonese were killed with many Hezbollah taken hostage or killed with few Israel troops killed.

Now *that* is how you fight a war.

Could they have done that from the beginning. Why yes they could, BUT Israel would have lost MORE troops then the minimal amount that they did. They weren't willing to take that chance and instead chose to fire on villages after they gave the lebanonese people less then 24 hours to evacuate.

Now, as it sits, Israel finally smartened up and started to send in ground troops and low flying helicopters in order to actually take out Hezbollah members. Before, that wasn't their goal. Conquer and destroy was their goal and they didn't care who got in their way. It's 1996 all over again. They had their hands slapped once already for bombing the UN barracks at Qana, except that time they killed approx. 100 women and children. After that, they started fighting "Fair" and that's all *I* ask (not that I am all that important).

This is not Vietnam AuntieD, yes they do have "children", many teens on the Hezbollah side and those are not the innocent children of which were getting killed in the air bombings or at Qana.

Where are the men you ask? Fighting the war of course. Where do you expect them to be? The older ones who had no one to help them out of the villages remained. Those who could get out did...some fathers stayed behind because of their farms or because they had women and children that they couldn't get out due to medical problems, lack of funding to reach Beirut or downed roads.

The rest? Fighting. Where do you think American Men would be? I'm hoping that isn't such a novel concept to you considering during WWII the country was left to mostly women (we even had our own baseball league for entertainment) and many of the army supplies were made by women because most of the men were gone. They were gone fighting a war.

4:28 AM  
Blogger mistyforeverlost said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4:28 AM  
Blogger Badbeans said...

I believe that Auntie D may have answered some of her own questions, with the question concerning the honor of the suicide of entire families, including children, for the cause.

What speaks volumes to me is that Islamic men will strap vests filled with bombs to their own sons, because, in their culture, it is a great honor to die while taking out as many of your enemy as you can on the offensive.

For the effeminate defenders of Islam and criticizers of Israel, what do you think of a culture of people who murder their daughters who have been raped and brutilized by other men for the "honor" of the family? Two completely different cultures (Islamic v. Judeo-Christian) and two different sets of values are in play. One cannot equate one with the other.

You cannot stand middle ground on this one, or you will get trampled. You can either get on the side of freedom, which is polar opposite of the Islamic culture as has been proven in Iraq and Afganistan, or you can go ahead and don your burqa and pray toward Mecca five times daily.

Those who love liberty, and I will go so far as to say Christian liberty, will be driven to exile as they are in Islamic nations now. Do you believe that this will never happen in the U.S.? These people are gunning for us as much as they are Israel. Look at some of the western European nations now, particularly France, and the Islamic influence there. Or maybe Detroit will hit a little closer to home.

The fact of the matter is that you cannot have it both ways. The Islamic culture will not live peacefully with western culture unless they are dominant. When they are dominant, anyone who does not bow to Mohammed is a dog worthy of death in the eyes of those who rule. Freedom does not thrive in that culture.

This is life or death for the west. Israel, the only nation truly based on western principles in the Middle East, has bowed to the political pressures of the world for years, ceded land, and only received terror and death in return. This is the historical modus operendi of Islam, dating back to Mohammed himself. Lie if you must to further the cause of Islam.

We are foolish not to take heed and fight the battle now, or else we have lost already.

7:35 AM  
Blogger mistyforeverlost said...

Isn't it an honor for any country to die for thier cause? We honor our fallen hero's, we applaud their most massive sacrafice...life and yet we abhor when other countries do the same.

Look, I am not on either side becuase I really do not understand the entire purpose of the fighting between the middle east countries. All I know is that not ALL of those children who died are evil, their fathers did not strap bombs to them and they were not suicidal maniacs. They were caught in the crossfire becuase many of their parents could not get to saftey.

They were purposely bombed and killed in order to get to the enemy. There were and are other ways of attacking. We did it in Iraq..how many civilians were killed in Iraq by the coalition hands?

6,331 from 1st May 2003 to the first anniversary of the invasion, 19th March 2004 (324 days: Year 1)
11,312 from 20th March 2004 to 19th March 2005 (365 days: Year 2)
12,617 from 20th March 2005 to 1st March 2006 (346 days: Year 3).

Then number of Lebanonese deaths to date (confirmed) in less then 30 days 650. If Israel had continued on it's path, they would have had approx 31,000 deaths of civilians by the three year mark. Luckily Israel changes tactics and put 6,000 ground troops in and have done MORE to take out the actual members of Hezbollah within a 1 day time span then they did during their entire bombing campaign.

8:10 AM  
Blogger mistyforeverlost said...

I just wanted to add that is the TOTAL number of Iraq Civilians killed and not all at the hands of coalition. Where-as all the deaths in Lebanon are at the hands of Israel. Here is the link for the proper breakdown...sorry about that:

**Although what has been described as ‘sectarian violence’ undoubtedly contributes to a growing proportion of deaths, the last year’s total includes 370 known civilian deaths from military action by US-led forces and 2,231 from anti-occupation activity against coalition and Iraqi government targets.**

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/

8:14 AM  
Blogger Auntie D said...

Misty I hope that was another typo on your part because there is not such a thing as an evil child period and I never said there was. But that group of people who would hide behind their own children are EVIL, not the children, the cowardly adults. We are not going to agree on this. But I'll say this again, you stay with those you are so adamently defending and let's just see how much they defend you, I'll stick with Israel any day. And AGAIN I say, those stats only show me that Israel is doing a GREAT job protecting thier own.

And pleaseeeeeeeee do NOT compare our military to that of these terrorist. Both my mother and father served during WW2 so I am well aware of what went on, just as I am about the Viet Nam war. At least as much as a civilian can know. In both instances, the menfolk (and some women too)were away protecting those at home, not hiding behind them. We were not fighting in our homeland. You don't even realize how ....... ridiculous your statement was. Just soooooooo proud that you thought you made a point when all you did was show .......never mind. When the time comes, and there is fighting in our homeland, I KNOW without a doubt that our soldiers will be standing between us and the enemy, not behind us. So sorry you don't realize that.

Thank you badbeans for your words. I agree soooooo totally with you and you always word your thoughts so well and better than I can. I was beginning to get really depressed thinking I must be the only one thinking the way I do. But I listen daily to the news and from what I have heard, I say Israel is doing a great job and I wish them victory. We forget they are over there pretty well surrounded by countries that hate them and always have and always will.

2:46 PM  
Blogger Auntie D said...

And one more thing misty, how come it's only Israel you want to fight "fair"????

2:49 PM  
Blogger mistyforeverlost said...

AuntieD, can you point out where I have sided with terrorist group called Hezbollah? If I remember correctly, I pointed out to the CIVILIANS of LEBANON. Not all of Lebanon supports or wants Hezbollah there. Yes, many do (which was my comment re: your question "where are the men.").

It makes complete sense to me that the men who are not with thier wifes and children are fighting a war they believe in or at the very least, joining forces with something they do NOT believe in so they can attempt to save what is left of their nation. Are they not allowed to defend what *they* feel is right or to defend their nation (lebanon) from getting blown to bits?

That was my point, we are not the only country who wants to protect ourselves or to fight for what we believe. The sooner we figure that one out, the sooner we can work towards a way of having peace. All countries are proud, even if that means supporting "protectors" like Hezbollah. That's simply a fact.

Yes, Hezbollah should be fighting fair. Last I checked, the death toll of Israels was slightly above 50 and that includes soldiers. Where-as the total death toll for Lebanon sits close to 600 confirmed with an estimated 750...most of those civilians.

It completely shocks me that you feel it is acceptable to bomb innocent people. Shocks me.

7:45 PM  
Blogger mistyforeverlost said...

Oh..and you missed my point. While our boys were overseas for other wars...we could have been hit here...where the women were left alone with the children.

If a war was started here, many of us would be sitting in those very same bunkers ALONE while attempting to protect our children while others fought for us.

It's not a far off assumption.

7:50 PM  
Blogger Max Atlas said...

Misty said: "While our boys were overseas for other wars...we could have been hit here...where the women were left alone with the children."

Misty - The United States has about 1.4 million in active service in the military. Of that 1.4 million, apprx. 1.1 million are still here in the US.

With the US having about 177,000 in Iraq and Afghanistan and the rest of the deployment in a dozen or so other countries, we have plenty of military right here at home.

Plus Misty, if there was ever an actual invasion on this soil, I would estimate that the military would grow by quite a few million more almost instantly. Even if some citizens never actually join per say, the overwheming coming together of 'the good ole boys', who still have their firearms despite the best efforts of the liberals, would be a sight to see (I would be one of them; as well as Badbeans, Wadical, the Patriot and other good ole boys who would still die for this country in a second so you could live free).

6:07 AM  
Blogger Badbeans said...

Misty,

We do not strap bombs onto our children and send them into a crowd full of innocent civilians, killing as many of them and themselves in process when "dying for the cause." Our forces are volunteers, grown men in combat situations, and grown men and women in support roles.

Israel is in a fight for their survival, and has been for years. I do not believe you can equate the Islamic ideal of "dying for the cause" with the western idea. As a matter of fact, in general, Islam is the polarity of western culture, and this is why neither can live in harmony with the other. And this, despite the attempts made by the west.

We either make a mudhole out of the Islamic middle east or we face the probable ultimate demise of the west. Take your pick.

8:34 AM  
Blogger WayneDawg said...

Misty -

You said ..' I simply stated that they (Israeli's) were wrong for bombing so many civilian areas..'

It amazes me that Hezbollah can shoot un-guided missiles into Israel with no tactical reasoning except to kill as many innocent people as possible and receives no condemnation for their actions. Meanwhile, Israel, while defending itself, uses precision guided raids on suspected or confirmed Hezbollah targets and trying to take out only the enemy, accidentally kills civilians and is criticized by the world.

I think you’re looking at this conflict with someone else’s prescription eyeglasses.

10:38 AM  
Blogger Wadical said...

Misty, your fencepost straddling neutrality is true to form. From that fencepost you hurl accusations and judgements but without "choosing sides". I'm sorry but I wonder if you actually stand for anything.

Israel does not target civilians. Here...let me italicize that and say it again...ISRAEL DOES NOT TARGET CIVILIANS. Israel targets armed combatants who hide among civilians. But they have no choice. Hezbollah has left them no choice. Your claim that that Israel should warn or telegraph their intent to react militarily shows your lack of knowledge about military strategy and procedure. "Hey, bad guys...we're gonna drop bombs on these targets in 36 hours.".....That's absurd! If people were shooting rockets from your neighborhood, would you stick around? Would you wait for a warning or for the first bomb to fall? Hell no! You'd leave...like any person with any desire to live. I assure you, the only civilians targeted are Israeli. Why are you so afraid to admit that? These people want to kill Jews and they prefer to die doing it...any Jew will do...and that includes the child in Auntie's hypothetical example. Yet Israel, just like any civilized nation, regularly renders medical aid to Lebanese and Palestinian civilians injured as a direct result of their own hostilities. You think that guerrilla fighter for Hezbollah will think twice about executing a Jewish child???

Israel, bombs roads and bridges because, militarily, it is the proper thing to do. These fighters have rockets on trucks. They move in, fire them, then move out. It's called "shoot and scoot." It is imperative that Israel first impede their mobility. When they have less escape routes, there is a greater probability that they can be tracked and targeted. It just makes sense. Civilian casualties are regretable but they are unfortunately unavoidable because these cowards choose to hide among them....not to mention the civilian population revere these guys as heros and welcome them to do so.

Careful with your statistics, Misty. You are slinging slanted numbers. You're simply googling words and phrases and pasting them here as fact. Israel's casualties are MUCH higher than you cited. You can't just go back to the kidnapping of the Israeli soldier. These people have been inflicting death and destruction on Israel for years. Hundreds upon hundreds of Israelis CIVILIANS have been killed as a result of their actions. Israeli casualties are low since the kidnapping because Israel is on the offensive. They're refusing to sit back and take it. If you were truly as objective as you see yourself to be, you'd count ALL of the casualties.

Israel is not breaking any accordances or established International rules of engagement. They are abiding by the Geneva Convention and are waging a war of self preservation in the only way they can effectively do so...offensively.

I fail to see the relevence of your comment regarding it being an honor to die for your country. If you die defending your country, sure it's an honor, and you will be remembered by your countrymen as being "honorable". But these people don't want to die for their country. They want to die for their God. They aren't just willing to die for their God....they actually prefer to die for him. We see things a little differently here in the US. I'll risk my life for my country. If I die, then so be it. But it's certainly not my preference. General George Patton put it well when he said: "No one ever won a war by dying for their country. They won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his

I really suggest you spend some time in true research to educate yourself on who these people really are. If you are truly interested in being objective, arm yourself with real facts. Here are some links to get you started.

Palestinian Media Watch
The Middle East Media Research Institute
Jihad Watch
Faith Freedom International

I look forward to hearing your thoughts when you are armed with the truth.

11:28 AM  
Blogger Auntie D said...

YEAHHHHHHHHHHH...........what they said!!!! (and thank you guys for saying it!!!) I was trying to say it that clearly but guess I just couldn't get it out as well.

Wadical, I'm headed that way. So y'all have to answer for me if there's any more come back.

2:50 PM  
Blogger Wadical said...

They did just go "door to door" with ground troops and only 19 lebanonese were killed with many Hezbollah taken hostage or killed with few Israel troops killed.

Now *that* is how you fight a war.


You know little of warfare. That is an IMPOSSIBLE way to fight a war and only a last resort to not fighting at all. Without an infinite number of troops it is impossible to hold the ground you've cleared. You must inevitably abandon the ground you've taken to take more ground. The enemy simply doubles around and reoccupies the "kicked door". You can think of it as "treading water" but never make the mistake of thinking of it as "swimming".

5:28 PM  
Blogger Wadical said...

Check you out, Auntie. 26 comments....make that 27! Moving on up! Great post.

5:30 PM  
Blogger Auntie D said...

What made the post great was all of you, certainly not me...that includes misty. I learn so much from all of you and although I am "older" I still love to learn. Thank you all for helping me in that area.

I started with honest questions which as the discussion went on and as I continued watching tv, I received my answers. I truly want to be able to look at all sides as much as possible without sacrificing the truth. I'm just one of those persons who will not fall for the trap those guys are trying to set against Israel in the mind of the "public". You guys said it all, completely and well and I can not add to it but I appreciate your help.

Misty, when I was very, very young I remember feeling the way you say you do. All I ever said was, let's have peace, let's love one another.......I hate war and I blamed the wrong people for it. But then I grew up and put away the childish things.

6:19 AM  
Blogger mysti said...

Wow I missed lots while I was with my family! Great post Aunt D. I have had the same questions, and had them all answered evendually by asking questions too.

4:28 AM  

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